Fab Giovanetti [00:00:00]:
Ever watched a video and felt like you've been invited into someone's living room? Well, pop the kettle on because today, we're diving into how that magic happens. Meet Kevin. Long time youtuber and absolute legend behind countless of epic home studios, even the ones you would not know about. He's the guy who's making us all rethink our spare room choices, and he's absolutely excited about the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats. For him is all about the genuine human touch in videos. And that's what brings everyone aboard and keeps them floating. Now grab your notepad because Kevin's here to filled the beans on creating content and a studio that gives you all the feels. We're chatting about the sneaky tweaks you can do in your studio that will have folks going from, oh, that's nice, to blimey.

Fab Giovanetti [00:00:49]:
That hit me right in the feels. Have I wondered what it takes to make a space cream? Hey, you. Come on in. Kevin's got the low downs on the power of layered lighting, creating that, and something called C Lab. Ready to earned your video game up to, like, an 11, then you are in the right place. Let's jump in and may today's class begin. Shake it off. Shake it off.

Fab Giovanetti [00:01:19]:
Maybe shake it off. Kevin, I'm gonna start by telling you 2 things. First of all, a weird thing that I love looking at, like a weird question I have, and it kinda leads into how I found you. So the weird thing that I love doing is actually looking at the setup of people's kind of recording. Mini studios, sometimes even just the desk. I just love looking at them. And, And, obviously, within that, I also like to look at just the background. So the reason why I'm telling you this is because how the lovely Kavinos here with us today came up is that I was looking to figure out the background for our own mini micro studio, which is actually my office because this has been built and painted and decorated by my husband mainly, let's be honest, and a tiny bit of myself.

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:05]:
I did 1 picture, Kevin, where it shows that I was holding a paintbrush. And that kind of means that I was doing something. Like, this is a picture that shows that I've been doing something. So as I was scrolling on Twitter because I kinda lost pace patience with Pinterest, you came up about a gazillion times, which was amazing thing. Because some of the people that I know as well, I think you actually helped some of, you know, my call it call it, like, ex friends or, like, you know, Twitter friends or whatever. So I saw you coming up so many times, and I also kinda looked at some of the stuff that you mentioned and some of your threads. And I kinda learned about, you know, how to make this little bad boy look a bit better even if I'm already at a starting point. So this is a bit of to say how I found out about you.

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:45]:
And also thank you for helping me create a really cute background and people already give us compliments even by just digesting your amazing free content. So thank you, Kevin.

Kevin Shen [00:02:56]:
No. Thanks. That means a lot. That's so cool. I love the Internet. That's amazing.

Fab Giovanetti [00:03:00]:
You know what I love about it is that the reason also I wanted to share it is because there's a big lesson, a thing for all of us, especially if you're active online. If Actually, somebody touches you in one way. It's actually nice to tell them, especially if you get to talk to them. I mean, in this very public poker space as well, I guess. But it's nice to be able could tell them because we think they know that people consume their content or we read things because you see, you know, likes and hearts and saves and things. But I don't think we think about it enough, if you know what I mean? Like, so it's nice because it actually reminds us that, oh, yeah, that thread that I took hours to write because I was trying to get it right. Somebody actually took action from it, and they got something out of it. So very much thank you.

Fab Giovanetti [00:03:41]:
Thank you for making it look nice and cute.

Kevin Shen [00:03:43]:
I like what you're saying because, like, that's definitely something that I struggled with for the longest time and still do, which is I think we as human beings think in stories and experiences and not numbers. Like and so seeing, you know, my brain can't comprehend the difference between a 10,021,000 Likes or, like, what does a 1000000 mean? What does 2 mean? And I think the the joy of the human, like, the reward system we have Innately for helping other people, we don't get that. Only just see numbers. You know, and I think a lot of times we get burned out because we're not getting that feedback from real people. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

Fab Giovanetti [00:04:20]:
Actually, I I love what you said there as well, so thank you. Because it really kinda sets in stone also how we start kind of interacting with the online world and then how kinda slowly we started learning actually what it looks like for us. And I think, once again, because people see what we build and how we build the, you know, the big numbers, as you say, or maybe like, you know, the people that we touched. It's kinda hard sometimes to remember that the person that is still behind still has, you know, whether it's some misconceptions or maybe some hang ups or, you know, we're still all trying to build our confidence day to day and kind of almost kind of hype ourselves up to show up because, actually, I think there's a lot of grace in showing up even the days where maybe you're like, I'm so tired or, like, I can't do yet another take of this video. And you're like, I'm gonna show up again because I know that my audience is gonna get something out of it. And I think it's part of the evolution of being online and showing up online. And with that in mind, actually, I wanna ask you 1 question just to lead us into the combo. And it's, Can you think about 1 thing that really motivates you to get up in the morning, obviously, do all the good things that we do in our morning routine, And then, actually, get back to work.

Fab Giovanetti [00:05:30]:
Back get back to your little studio, wherever you go, and get started to work. What is something that really motivates you?

Kevin Shen [00:05:37]:
I think right now in this moment, the one thing that I feel like I'm designing my life around personally is I think work is just really fun because you get to sort of be playing a video game all the time. Like when I was a kid, I would be super into Pokemon. I'd always be thinking about, like, okay, which Pokemon do I wanna level up? Which one do I wanna train and put more hours into? But You weren't allowed to do it all the time as a kid. And with business, I definitely have days where I feel burned out And where I feel, you know, like, oh, okay, like, work is on my shoulders and it just feels like it's just too much. But when I'm not feeling that way, It's just really cool because you have this thing that you kinda always get to be excited about. It's kinda like this thing where I always Love having a TV show that I'm halfway done watching or a movie I'm halfway done watching because you know there's something that you're excited to do as soon as you get a chance To watch something. You don't have to think about what am I what can I get excited about? You know, you don't have to invest yourself into something new. And so I think having work that Kind of is this constant journey, a constant snowball.

Kevin Shen [00:06:49]:
It's a machine that you're kinda building a little by little by little. Watching it grow, it's like gardening. I just find that To be really exciting because it's just something that you constantly are just invested in already and you can solve it and build it into whatever you wanna build it into. Kind of as a side product, you build yourself and you grow yourself. And I think that is such a tangent, but it's kind of one of the most important things, I think, in life and What I find joy in, personally.

Fab Giovanetti [00:07:17]:
I absolutely love that because it resonates so much with the idea of actually, you know, the journey itself. But also what helps me keeping myself Countable, is sharing that journey and kind of sharing, you know, some of the things that I'm learning along the way. As you say, it's like because the journey continues, and I find that What I'll say though, kind of bringing back my good old friend, Kevon, twice guest of the pod. So Kevon Chong, if you don't know him, shout out Kevon again. Anyway, You know, building in public, which is obviously something he talks about all the time, building in public is actually a practice, and we think we would naturally do it. But even for me that I like actually document what I do. You know, I used to have a diary and a planner and all these things. It's actually really hard to find the consistency and actually find the commitment and putting ourselves back we're so busy doing so many other things.

Fab Giovanetti [00:08:00]:
So I love the the mindset that you're bringing up and the the the reframing of it. It's like when you enjoy that journey, when you enjoy what's coming next, and then if you can make the time to also kind of recollect. You talked about stories earlier. Collect those stories and create those stories. Maybe Maybe they have to be very packaged and refined, but then they can also be shared with your audience. And not only you get excited and you find that joy, but I think also your audience gets to see a side of you that is the one that is still learning. And I also think it makes you more relatable to that point, which is kinda what we want. Because At the end of the day, Kevin I mean, I said at the beginning before we jumped on, look at your beautiful background and all the setup and all the little things.

Fab Giovanetti [00:08:38]:
And I'm like, And mine is literally a beautiful hot mess behind me. Terry is hiding somewhere. Terry is that. Terry is the avocado. If you cannot see it, Then you have to at least watch 1 of our YouTube videos to see Terry the Avocado. There's 2 of them. But I know it's a bit of a hot mess, but I like it. But what I was gonna say was, you know, even if you are Amazing at what you do and so skilled and so talented.

Fab Giovanetti [00:08:58]:
It's nice to see though, you know, the journey of building a business around your passion for helping others creating a beautiful online home and virtual studio home, if that

Kevin Shen [00:09:08]:
makes sense.

Fab Giovanetti [00:09:09]:
Now I have to ask you 1 more question, and then we're actually gonna get into our Little class in session because then you can tell us a bit more about, obviously, your passion and and what you do. What is and what was your favorite ever Pokemon. That's what I wanna know because I was a fellow Pokemon fan, so I wanna know.

Kevin Shen [00:09:25]:
Yeah. Oh my god. There's so many. I wanna say the one that jumps to the top of my mind is Blastoise Because obviously one of the original, you know, 3 starter Pokemon maxed out, but also I had a Blastoise card, Holographic card. I forgot how I got it. I think it was in, like, a booster pack my mom got me. But then for some reason, I traded it away and so, like, that's the one I go, like, oh, I should not have done that. That was my favorite one that I had and then I I think someone traded me, like, probably some snacks or something.

Kevin Shen [00:09:55]:
I was a kid and I didn't know better. So, Yeah. Blastoise probably.

Fab Giovanetti [00:10:01]:
Feels like the one that got away a bit. Yeah.

Kevin Shen [00:10:03]:
That's the

Fab Giovanetti [00:10:04]:
one they're like what it feels like. And I love got. And, you know, if you don't know, Blastoise is a is a turtle. Right? Right? Blastoise is the turtle, isn't it?

Kevin Shen [00:10:11]:
Chunky turtle.

Fab Giovanetti [00:10:13]:
It's a big chunky turtle and it gets, like, super powerful when, obviously, when levels up as well and evolves. And mine, everybody, I mean, if you're dear dear and loyal listener, you will not be surprised. I'll tell you what just a name. I wanna see Kevin's reaction before I tell you who it is, mine was Jigglypuff. Oh, nice. Because he was very underrated, the little guy, And it was really cute, and you're like, oh, it's a doorbell. What can do? Like I know, but it's is cute and and and it comes in with his little mic. And you're like, oh, you're adorable.

Fab Giovanetti [00:10:47]:
And then what it does is that it's also mischievous though. Because when he sings, What happens is then you fall asleep and then it likes to kind of, like, draw on you. So I kinda like him because I thought it was a bit underrated and also was really cheeky. And I feel like that kinda sums up who I am. Not really the end of the race, but definitely the cheek. Not a great singer though, everybody. I'm really sorry. So, yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you because I always love because that's, again, that's another thing that connects me to my childhood, like, Pokemon.

Fab Giovanetti [00:11:13]:
I had it in my Game Boy. Again, hello hello gen z. We had Game Boys. And I used to play, like, you know, Pokemon Gold and all these things. And so, you know, the little things that connect us that I find really, really fun and and kinda like they kind of give me a little bit spark of joy. Now in Tudo, a bit more of the current passions. We looked at our older passions. We're connecting with those as well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:11:34]:
But new passions include, in this case, obviously, talking about the tube as in the YouTube. And, obviously, what you do and what you help people with is setting up these amazing studios, and I love, Again, the way they also break it out for people. In our class in session section, we actually look a bit of, like, teaching and learning. And just to kick us off into this topic. I wanna ask you, Kevin. If you were to teach our students and our listeners one thing in 1 minute about setting up their own studio, setting up their own backgrounds, setting up their own YouTube. What would that one thing be?

Kevin Shen [00:12:09]:
I think the biggest thing that I hear from people who wanna work with us in our course or clients who hire our team to design and build their studios for them is overwhelmed. It's just such a huge heavy lift, in the words of Tiago Forte. Like, it's one of the big things that you kinda have to Like, you kind of have to set aside a whole bunch of, like, time to just do this one thing and it can be such a huge demand for like, You need so much exit velocity to get past this task of learning how to design your space, learning how to light your space, Learning how to do audio properly, doing how to do camera settings, understanding the physics of optics and lenses and how to pick the right gear, workflow, It can get very overwhelming. And the biggest thing that I find people getting stuck in, me myself too, is we're just kinda not sure what to do. It's like we could kind of do steps if if someone told us exactly what to do, but we're just so afraid because things are expensive to take action, right, to buy a camera. You don't wanna pick the wrong camera. Lighting is also just, like, incredibly complicated to design right and we don't really see how things are lit When we like an image because the lights are outside the shot. Right? So what I would say is thinking back to, like, How to navigate that whole thing is just kinda coming back to what is what is the thing you're trying to design? You know, having a compass for this really complex journey.

Kevin Shen [00:13:32]:
I know this is longer than a minute. I'll try to wrap it up. But I try to get people to understand this concept of the emotional payload of your content. Like, why are we trying to create content? Why do we want it to look good in the 1st place? What are we trying to communicate? And it all boils down to we're showing up for somebody either, you know, at scale through broadcast or 1 on 1 on Zoom. And we want them to have some kind of impact, some kind of transformation in their life to either work with us or just kinda leave some impact behind. And so in order for them to do that, they have to feel a certain way. So I ask people, like, what would your life be like if everyone you met or talked to Already felt a certain way about you. Already felt a certain way about your content.

Kevin Shen [00:14:14]:
They felt like it was somebody they trusted already. They felt like you were a safe place where they could genuinely just open up and just kinda hear what you have to say. They already trusted that you had stuff worth listening to, so they gave you the time of day to actually consume your content and all these things. Like, that is marketing and sales and all this stuff. Like, that's the whole purpose of why we show up. Right. It's like to to help somebody feel some way so that they can take action to go do something. And so your studio is a way to do all of that.

Kevin Shen [00:14:44]:
And so if if you're feeling overwhelmed, the solution is not to just go, I just need someone to tell me exactly, which camera I should get? So my uncle does bird watching. He has a camera. Let me just copy that exact camera. It's like, no, you need something that's designed for what you want. So figure out what you want first and all the design decisions and tech decisions stem from there. So that was a really Longer than 1 minute answer.

Fab Giovanetti [00:15:11]:
What we're gonna do, we're gonna kinda kinda make it, like, 1 minute by magic. However, I wouldn't wanna do that though because you actually painted a great picture. So we're not gonna do that. It's okay. It means that there was A lot of context, and I think it's important because one of the things that I was thinking as you finished off was What comes back to me is the idea of welcoming, you know, regardless of how the let's put in the picture or the video. Obviously, it's gonna be a video, but the picture, obviously, of seeing you in the studio and, you know, obviously, with the background and everything. How can you make it feel welcoming, as you say, so that it can build trust? So I really find it fascinating. And I think without the context, it would have been harder.

Fab Giovanetti [00:15:50]:
So, you know, we love the fact that it was more than a minute. And, actually and one thing I wanna add as well to that is that I think it's really Interesting to think about it as another step of kind of building that relationship funnel that we know is so important when it comes to marketing. And also And correct me if I'm wrong and this is kind of where I wanna go next with this as well is I think there's also an element of experimentation and I think that's also another fear, another hang up for a lot of, creators or people that wanna be in front of a video. Like, I stopped myself from doing videos, especially even just for us to produce in the video version of the podcast for so long because one, Adam moved into the house to be bought, which is fab. But then after that, this this room took 6 months to actually completely redo, so it was a long time. And so it took me a long time to be like, I don't really like where I was because it was a halfway room and stuff like that. And it's hard because if If I hadn't started at the end, I'd just given it. I was like, I'm gonna try.

Fab Giovanetti [00:16:45]:
I'm gonna do a few anyway. And I was able to play because I wasn't putting so much pressure for it to be perfect at first, if you know what I mean. And I think it's finding the balance between, obviously, wanting to make things look good but also being open to experiment to see what works good works well for us and our audience. So we'd love for you to elaborate on that. And what advice would you give? This is my personal experience, how I found they helped me, not just to be hang up to have this ready to actually do something with it. But maybe may maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are other ways to do it, but I would love to hear your opinion because that was one of my big hangs up. Has to be perfect before I even do a video.

Fab Giovanetti [00:17:21]:
I'm sorry. No. No, girl. Just let it go.

Kevin Shen [00:17:25]:
Yeah. That's personally one of the things that I struggle with the most too. I think a lot of folks who get into this space tend to be high achievers or very creative people and we have a lot of high expectations for ourselves. And the difficult thing about a video setup is it matters so much to us because we see ourselves in it. Right? It's not just this piece of thing that we can throw on the Internet and, like, it's whatever. It's like It's us. Right? And so we wanna do a really good job, but at the same time too, it's hard for us to know it's what we want until we see it Because it's kind of a feeling thing. And so what I tell everyone in our course and the clients we work with, it's, like, the best thing you can do for this process To end up with a studio that you love is to lean into taking action.

Kevin Shen [00:18:14]:
So if you're afraid of painting a wall, right, that's Yeah. Like, that's one of the things that people are so afraid of because it takes a lot of time and effort. I have to remind them, you know, if you pick the wrong color, a, lighting and camera settings will teach you how to, like, make it not as drastic of a you can make a whole variation of different colors work. The brightness of, like, it's too bright, it's too dark. Don't worry. That's fine. But also people don't realize you can repaint a wall. It's like you could you can return your gear.

Kevin Shen [00:18:43]:
You can move a bookshelf. There's things that, like, it's more important that you just try something because then you'll know, You know, and this is advice that I have to keep giving myself because I struggle with this on the daily of, I want this email to be perfect. I want this video to be perfect. And I tell my team, like, hey, just tell me that it's good enough. Like, remind me that it's it's the engine we're building and not that specific one action That that has to be perfect. So same with the studio. Your studio is alive and it is gonna grow with you as a person. I recently added this little slat wall in there And before that, I think I didn't have these pillows.

Kevin Shen [00:19:21]:
So it kind of grows little by little and you try adding stuff. I have this little alpaca Picture frame that I got and I put it in there, realized it was too small in the background, so I took it out. So there's all these different things that You'll experiment with and you'll slowly keep the things that you like and mutate the things you don't like. It does take a little bit of time. But really, like, if you're stuck Afraid of making any move. It's just make 1 move to get started because then you'll understand where you should go next.

Fab Giovanetti [00:19:49]:
I love that. And I I love the the kind of breaking it down interline the next steps. And, also, I think it makes it a bit more fun for us as an experience. And I kinda actually wanted to ask about that. Because I think, again, if somebody is literally starting out and you just have an idea from watching other people's YouTube videos and you're like, oh, actually, there is some thought in, kind of how they set up their studio. And trust me, there is. Because then Steph shout out to Steph who heads the pod and video and everything. She is amazing and, obviously, does a lot of video and and content editing as well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:20:19]:
And so she started, like, throwing at me all the possible videos about the rabbit hole that is YouTube setups. Ups. And I was like, woah. So there is a world that if you're just kind of tiptoeing into today well done, team. But I find that for me, what was really helpful, it was just to have fun with it. And as you say, try things. And I know that you've been doing a lot of setups. You're working with a lot of clients, and I'm sure you've seen so many from your courses.

Fab Giovanetti [00:20:41]:
But I have a question for you. Can you think of one example of maybe it was a client, maybe it was a student that you work with for their stood up for the setup that was actually really fun. I'm sure they all are in different ways, but was the one that you actually found that was really creative and really fun, and, like, a great experience that maybe you can share with us as well.

Kevin Shen [00:21:00]:
The top of mind right now, the one that sticks out is we're in the middle of building out the studio for ship 30, For Dickie Bush and Nicholas Cole. And the reason it it's not done yet, but the reason why that one sticks out is because They got really excited when we started talking. They're like, oh my God, we want to we want this whole, like, business we have is about Shipping things. Like, shipping your your Twitter threads and stuff. They're going with, like, this boat nautical theme, and they really wanted to lean into it And weren't too concerned about, like, everything has to be, you know, like, well, with a tiny little budget or, like, they really want understood the value of Investing in a studio that's gonna pay back dividends. And so they're really, like, let's go do something really cool. Our team put together, Like, this really cool, like, shipping container background. So it actually looks like a shipyard.

Kevin Shen [00:21:52]:
And it's just I mean, so excited to see it come to life. We're gonna go to Miami to help them set it up. But that's definitely one to keep an eye out for if you all watching haven't seen it yet. By the time this episode goes out, the studio should be done. So go give them a follow. Yeah, I think what else is there? It's just really fun seeing that final result Where someone goes like, oh, my God. Like, there's all these cool things that we could do. And then they sit down in their studio for the 1st time and they go, oh, my God.

Kevin Shen [00:22:21]:
It, like, breathes a lot of confidence into them, you know, because when you see yourself in a studio, you realize, oh my god, I'm among The best of the best. Like, I look like a masterclass. There's no difference between me and, like, Steve Martin's masterclass, You know, or Neil deGrasse Tyson or whoever it is. Right? It's like, I look just like that person. I must be I must belong And have a voice worth listening to now on the Internet. You know, and you don't have to be someone who, like, carries themself perfectly. I'm wearing, like, a super wrinkly shirt. I just pulled it off, you know, the top of my my shirt stack.

Kevin Shen [00:22:57]:
But the studio does the job of holding that weight of carrying, like, hey, This is content worth listening to, or all that stuff that we carry around on our own shoulders, thinking that we have to prove ourselves to be worth listening to To take up space, the studio lets you do all that stuff and you can just show up as yourself. I know that was another tangent. My my ADHD brain just loves to go in circles.

Fab Giovanetti [00:23:25]:
1st of all, I said it before in one of our interviews and I will say again, We welcome tangents. This is a safe tangent space. My squirrel brain, which again, dear loyal listener, you know I have a squirrel brain, loves the tangent. So don't worry. My job is also to bring us back in from the tangent and enjoy it. So and, also, I think you said something that leads me to my next question, which Usually I mean, you can also give me another answer if you've prepared another answer, but I'm actually gonna go a bit specific because now I remember one of the pieces of content that I found you through was a breakdown of an example of, like, you know, masterclass. If you don't know what masterclass is, literally go to masterclass.com, masterclass video setups. And you'd like a bit of a breakdown.

Fab Giovanetti [00:24:05]:
You kinda talked about some of the cool things to look out when you are looking at, you know, some of the trailers and stuff. And I absolutely love that. And I think a lot of people know what masterclass is and because you've probably seen in ads and other things like that. You know, we've got people, as you said, Steve Martin, Gordon Ramsay, obviously, teaching us. And I love that you're carrying the weight and now we can feel like we can do the same. So I wanted to ask you actually so the original question, obviously, is about any strategies or framework that you learned from other people that stood out. So, obviously, you can answer that too. But I'm gonna start by asking you on this vein.

Fab Giovanetti [00:24:37]:
What about, think, places like MasterClass? If we choose MasterClass as a case study, what would be one lesson that we can learn from the way that they do video or they do the setup or, you know, what is one thing maybe that is, like, a little thing that we can pick up that we didn't even notice that really works with our brains.

Kevin Shen [00:24:56]:
Yeah. I guess one of the the nicest, just nuggets that I've been thinking about lately is this idea that more lights is more important than more light. So many people make the mistake of just flooding themselves with a bunch of light. They think that's the function of lighting, just to make sure that they're visible. And true, you don't wanna be invisible, like, in the darkness, but the function of lighting and, you know, by extension, your your camera settings, your lens choice, Your camera choice, audio, even, everything is just to provide a sense of depth. Right? We're we're kind of painters painting a 2 d, rectangle into this 3 d space that the person should feel like they're actually invited into. You can even see, like, that's why I have a couch. Like, it makes the person Psychologically feel like they have a space for them in my content, you know.

Kevin Shen [00:25:45]:
And so when you're using lighting, just kinda think about it. It's more important to have more lights, More individual pieces of light than overall quantity because the lights shine on different objects differently depending on if the object is in front Or behind the light or to the side. And those give your eyes context clues, like in real life, where things are actually positioned. So you can create that 3 d depth in that two d space. And that's a tip that kinda carries over more broadly. Every single thing, including audio that you can't see, is all about depth. Right? And even like, what is depth? Right? It even carries over to, like, the the the meta big picture of what we're trying to do in the 1st place with content. Depth is making something pop and something else recede.

Kevin Shen [00:26:31]:
You can't have everything pop. Right? And so what you're trying to do is, what is What is that really? It's it's attention. It's guiding the viewer's attention. Right? And so when you can guide that person's attention, you're just using all these little tools To kinda nudge them towards what you want them to pay attention to, to stick with you, to follow you, to keep track of what you're saying and and this journey you're guiding them on. If you understand depth, you can find it in basically every single component of a studio. And there's this Acronym that I like to give people. I know it's a lot of things to keep track of, right? You know, so I I tell them C Lab. C for camera, l for lighting, a for audio, b for background.

Kevin Shen [00:27:13]:
So c lab. So you can find depth in every single one of these areas, You know, whether it's MasterClass or any other inspiration of another studio that you might like, kind of if you think through those components, that'll get you well on the way to to looking way better. You know, just think, how can I add a little bit more depth in whatever it is I'm doing right now?

Fab Giovanetti [00:27:33]:
That's amazing. And I actually remember you mentioning that in the thread that I found originally that was a mention and of that and kind of going back to that depth. And it's one of those things that instinctively we kind of know when we think about it. We realize, oh, yeah. This is actually I can I can see the difference when I when I notice that? But as you say, it's just going back to our subconscious brain and be like, This is why we we kind of feel, as you say, almost part of the picture or part of the experience is thanks to these little things as well. So thank you so much for sharing that as well. Just gonna check. Did you also prepare a framework or a strategy to jump out at you from the original question just in case you wanna share that too? But if not, this is already lots of, golden nuggets.

Fab Giovanetti [00:28:14]:
So I just wanted to ask you about that first.

Kevin Shen [00:28:17]:
Yeah. I don't think I had anything specific. When people ask about the frameworks, that's usually what I kind of share with them, this idea that when we're designing, Basically designing anything, right? Like, if I was to even ask you, what is the job of a director in a in a movie, most people think the job of a director is to to say what happens when Or, like, what's on screen or where the camera is, right? But their job is actually to direct the viewer's attention, to direct what is happening in that person's emotional space, What what journey are they going through? What sort of climax or release or tension are they experiencing? So that they can live through that experience. And really everything when it comes to the interior design of the space, picking the color, Choosing where in the space to film, where your background is, the lighting setup, all this stuff are just tools To craft that ultimate human to human interaction that you have. You know, and so going back to that first thing of the emotional payload, If you understand what it is that you want that person to believe about themselves or to experience or to go through or to feel about you, right, like a warm, welcoming space, for instance, You can take that and just kinda design everything to that end and it'll just be like this really beautiful, like, Pyramid of everything kinda pointing towards that end goal of where you want their attention to be.

Fab Giovanetti [00:29:39]:
That's great. And the only thing I'm gonna add to that, just to finish off kinda knowing my peeps, is that, obviously, if you're starting from nothing, we talked about in the beginning, so I'm gonna reiterate. It's about the baby steps. I think it's how that kind of learning mindset, especially for something that can be really big unless, again, either you hire somebody like Kevin or you do you know, people do your course and then they kinda get a lot of the guidance, they still have to put you know, take action or less. Literally, you do it for them. And I think it's their reminder that you will learn little things that maybe you wanna improve, of, like, your positioning around the camera or things like that that you kinda wanna change, and that is okay. And I think it's it's literally a practice even I noticed for myself little things that I'm like, oh, maybe I should be a bit higher to be in better frame or the shot or, like, the lights that we use. And, again, it's also being kind to ourselves and not, you know, kinda beating ourselves up if the lights are not right or, you know, there's a lot you know, things like that.

Fab Giovanetti [00:30:31]:
Because the more we learn, I think that's one of them blessings and the curse of learning things. You're like, oh, yeah. I there are a lot of shadows around my face, and then you start feeling conscious. So it's about going back to the mindset of, okay. I learned that. Let's make a change and see how I can do it better next time because it's such a big actually, a bigger topic than we think and is a bigger practice than we think to actually direct direct our viewers' attention and keep them engaged. You You know, I think it can be a bit hard, and that's maybe part of where the overwhelm comes from. So just my pips down, both excited and scared.

Fab Giovanetti [00:31:04]:
You got this. We told you how to get started. I promise you're in the right direction already. You are on the right track.

Kevin Shen [00:31:10]:
Yeah. I wanna add to that. You're getting me so excited kinda Talking about that, I think another hugely overlooked piece is people don't realize that you should also design your studio to work for you. Like, it should be an asset that serves you and not something that you have to serve. And so before, I used to have, like, a setup that was just kinda really kinda harsh, like And just kind of, like, I didn't wanna be there. And so even, like, the little things, like, I really resonate with folks who feel like it's a little intimidating, you know, and all this stuff. And so Finding little ways to even make your space feel welcoming to you. Like, I added this felt pad to my desk.

Kevin Shen [00:31:48]:
It just makes me feel a lot more like This is a space I can just relax and be myself. You know, I'm even holding a blanket down here because whenever I'm, you know, having conversations, it it Makes me feel more at home. So think through how you can make a studio that works for you to allow you to feel more safe on camera, to feel more at home on camera. All of that stuff Allows you to produce more content, allows you to show up more, allows it to carry all the heavy weight that you don't want to shoulder all the time. Think about how you can make it into an asset for you rather than a liability that you have to plug yourself into, drains your energy Just to get out there and do the content you think you you need to do.

Fab Giovanetti [00:32:36]:
I love that. It's a bit like Talking about blankets, it's a bit like Terry, which, again, if you're watching the video, you'll see Terry again. He's coming back again for a little. Terry is so I'm gonna tell you the story about Terry quickly. Terry is an avocado with a bubble hat in case you can't see him and you're like, fab, this sounds great, but I can't see him. So, it is obviously a remnants of Creative Impact, my old business. Again, shout out to anybody who actually was part of the Creative Impact crew. Avocado was our logo because we used to be called health bloggers community.

Fab Giovanetti [00:33:05]:
So avocado has always been my thing. And because of that, my friends will gift me lots of avocado stuff. And so we have Timmy and Terry, who are twins because I got gifted for Christmas 1 year. Both of them, the same thing. And so Terry's been appearing in my videos, like, both in different places. At first, I didn't think anything about it. And then people were like, oh my god. He's the best thing ever.

Fab Giovanetti [00:33:26]:
I like him so much. I adore him. I was like, oh, we want more of him. So I started putting them as a little Easter egg myself and you will find them in different places. And it almost also makes me happy. So it was kind of like I put it there first because it was like, he's adorable. And if I kinda catch a glimpse of it, it makes me smile. And then I realized that my audience loved them too, so it's kinda become a little bit of a thing.

Fab Giovanetti [00:33:46]:
You know, at First, it was there just because it made me feel kind of safe and it made me smile. So I love that you mentioned, like, the little things that also make us feel more comfortable, especially if, You know, you have to do an interview or you have to do a conversation and maybe, you know, it's something new or somebody new. I think it's the little things that just give us that confidence, as you say, that the whole studio can bring upon us as well. And actually on that note, I got another question that might be related to this because it's about Yourself, it can be about your work. It can be about your life. But, Kevin, what is one thing that you have unlearned recently that has improved whether you like or your work or both.

Kevin Shen [00:34:22]:
Oh, so many. That's such a good question. I think the one that jumps, You know, out at me is that I should not be the center of everything When it comes to building my business on the Internet, when it comes to showing up, when it comes to really anything that I'm doing, I feel like the Again, the way that a lot of us get into doing this stuff, you know, making stuff online or building businesses and stuff like that, is We tend to feel like there's something that we wanna show other people. Like, hey, I'm really good at something or I I wanna prove to people something about me. And that can sort of sometimes get into this territory of I need to be the one who is writing every single email. I need to be the one telling my team exactly what to do and how to do it. When in reality, I think there's just so much more I'm trying to put Words around it, but there's just so much more of this groundedness that you can have, this this just peace and contentment when We realized, like, we don't really have to be the center of attention all the time. We don't have to be the ones doing everything ourselves and building things in community, Building things with people, I found that, like, that's just so much more gratifying to me.

Kevin Shen [00:35:39]:
Kind of breaking this belief that, like, I have to be the person capable of everything and allowing my team, allowing the people I work with to teach me stuff, to call me out on things, to Show me where I can grow as a person. And I think business growth is just such an amazing thing because it's You have to grow as a person and your business will follow. You know? So just leaning into that has been really cool. Yeah. And the it's it's just there's a lot To unlearn there, just even within that one thing. You know?

Fab Giovanetti [00:36:12]:
I love that. And I think one of the biggest things things about this that I wanna reiterate, so thank you so much for sharing that, is that, actually, a lot of this comes down to understanding the when we take off some of this thing from our shoulders. And it's very relevant for us as business owners and people that run businesses, but it can be relevant for anybody, especially Even if you were to have a marketing career, let's say that you wanna grow and you wanna expand and you wanna actually focus on other things, understanding the power of Not just the delegation piece, which came with what you're saying, obviously, but it's also that delegation piece that allows you to learn from it by actually getting the input of other people. I like the idea of surrounding myself with people that are smarter than me, especially when it comes to areas that I know are not necessarily my main area of focus. So I'll I'm really happy that you mentioned this because Steph again, shout out to Steph today's is down to the stuff. Obviously, she does a lot of the editing, and she's constantly telling me little things or suggesting little things we can try or to improve or, you know, to do together. And, you know, I know that that's not where I wanna spend my time learning these things or perfecting these things. It's not my strength.

Fab Giovanetti [00:37:19]:
And so I welcome that. And by doing that, I can see that we are doing better. We're doing things faster and smarter. So it's a lesson for anybody. If you wanna get better, as you say, if you wanna grow as a person, you have to lean into or being open for help and learning from the help that you're getting. So thank you very much. That was actually a great thing to remind us of.

Kevin Shen [00:37:40]:
Oh, you put it really well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:37:42]:
Well, I only had the great seeds that I had to reap, so it's fine. Now We're gonna go quick fire. So if before, we were looking at all these beautiful things, now we're gonna go quick with choices. You gotta choose which 1 you're gonna keep out of the 2, but it's gonna be quick. And we're gonna elaborate on a few of them, but we're gonna start. Are we ready?

Kevin Shen [00:38:04]:
Yeah. Let's go.

Fab Giovanetti [00:38:05]:
Spotify playlist or podcast? Spotify. Voice note or text? Voice notes. Carousels all reels.

Kevin Shen [00:38:17]:
Reels.

Fab Giovanetti [00:38:19]:
Was it hard because you couldn't choose 1 or was it hard because you We really didn't need either of them.

Kevin Shen [00:38:27]:
Yeah. Kind of the latter.

Fab Giovanetti [00:38:31]:
Well, then I think if I'm gonna ask you the next one, then that might be I mean, I cannot think I know the answer, but I wanna see. The next one is TikTok or YouTube?

Kevin Shen [00:38:40]:
YouTube. Hands down.

Fab Giovanetti [00:38:41]:
Obviously you know, obviously, we know that with that. But I'm gonna ask you, though, do you see yourself consuming kinda short form video content, or it's something that just kind of doesn't appeal to you or you just don't really kind of take the time to create and kind of analyze and stuff.

Kevin Shen [00:38:56]:
Sometimes I will watch shorts and stuff, but it's just because, like, that's when my brain is so fried. I just kinda need to I don't wanna say garbage content, just like junk food content. There's some amazing shorts out there. But when I'm actually trying to learn and and find stuff specifically, I'll try to watch long form. But I think there's also a mid ground. Again, like, I think this is a tangent that I find really chewy. I I've just found, like I think there's, like, a mid ground of not needing to consume it. Sometimes just, like, processing stuff instead.

Kevin Shen [00:39:26]:
But processing the things that I've already consumed is, like, so overlooked.

Fab Giovanetti [00:39:30]:
Oh my god. Yes. I like, it's interesting you mentioned it because whenever we're running a certification cohort, like, a big conversation is had about building your kinda your your own systems using the 2nd brain framework from Thiago Forte, who you mentioned earlier as well. We talk about, obviously, the book as well and all these things, but it's really about understanding that without the thinking and implementation and the reflection, is really hard for us to progress. So I love that you mentioned that even for what we consume because I find that, obviously, as marketers, we teach, we teach our students about, obviously, doing proper reviews and auditing of different things from the cohort. I find that it's interesting because people love to know system. But then when we get to, like, actually, the points of reflection, I see that's when we're rushing it or where a lot of students rush it because it's just we're not used to it as much in a world of consumption to actually do the reflection piece. So excellent point there.

Fab Giovanetti [00:40:22]:
It's a nearly no tangent, but it's a great reminder of that as well, the time for processes and consumption. I got 2 more. Newsletter or Twitter or x, I should say.

Kevin Shen [00:40:34]:
Probably newsletter.

Fab Giovanetti [00:40:36]:
And finally, last but not least, Memes or GIFs?

Kevin Shen [00:40:42]:
Memes. That's my story.

Fab Giovanetti [00:40:48]:
That's fair enough. That's fair enough. Every single time somebody says gifts, I feel like there's a little, like, joyful gift that goes on in my head with my little happy gift camp, But I'm partial to both. I'm partial to both, but, you know, I'm I'm team GIF. So

Kevin Shen [00:41:02]:
I love it.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:03]:
If I do send a GIF every couple of emails, there's something wrong, basically. You gotta check it out. Something wrong. Thank you so much, Kevin. And now before we finish, I have 1 more question to wrap us up before you tell us a bit more about what people can find out more about you. We're actually wrapping up with me, you know, just talking upon you a power, believe it or not. And this power is for you to be able to broadcast 1 message onto everyone's phone. You got 1 message, you can say one thing.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:30]:
What should that 1 message say?

Kevin Shen [00:41:33]:
Oh, that's such a good question. I think I would just have it be 2 words, like, it's okay.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:39]:
That is so cute. What a way to end. Oh, I love that. So let's repeat it again. What would it say?

Kevin Shen [00:41:47]:
It's okay.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:49]:
Just in case anybody needed to hear that today. So thank you, Kevin.

Kevin Shen [00:41:53]:
Yeah.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:54]:
If people wanna hear more about you, I want you to tell us where they can go. But first of all, I wanna thank you again for sharing all of the wisdom and also for really creating a space where you could share, obviously, as we mentioned, the tangents. But within that, I think there were so many gems about some of the things that we overlook or some of the things that we don't think about and really breaking down a system for somebody that might wanna start exploring something new like a YouTube setup and this new type of online and offline home they can create for themselves. So thank you so much for being so open with us. And if people wanna find out more about you, why should they go?

Kevin Shen [00:42:27]:
Yeah. So I'm on YouTube at Kevin Shen. Just search me up on YouTube. But if anybody wants to learn more about the studio stuff, we do have, like, a free email course that just, like, kind of guides people through all the steps so it's not as overwhelming. And they get some of our best guides of, like, this whole inspiration list, which is the 1st step in any studio build we take clients and students through. But we're at dreamstudiocourse.co. Right now, we're dreamstudiocourse.com but we're shifting over the domain name. So by the time this episode is out, we should be at dreamstudio.co.

Kevin Shen [00:43:00]:
Well, yeah, there's a lot of free content out there that we put out, so dive into that stuff. And if anybody needs more help, if they don't have time to spend all this time and energy doing it, we have a team That's more than willing to help. So, feel free to just get in touch. It's on that website as well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:43:15]:
Fantastic. Thank you so so much. Team, as always, this was a very insightful chat. I'm so happy that we had this. We'll be back next time with more ways to market to hearts and making an impact with your marketing. But in the meantime, it's all class is missed.