Fab Giovanetti [00:01:31]:
Hey, marketing rebels. It's Fab here, your marketing BFF and head feature at Alt Marketing School, a modern school teaching you how to market to hearts. Today is class in session once again where we bring you insights from top marketing experts and amazing humans We want to make marketing more human and fun. And who better today to join us than Graham Todd, also known as Todd from Spaghetti Agency. If you're ready for a speaker who is as engaging as is savvy, then enter Todd. More than just a digital marketing expert is the co director of Spaghetti Agency. We're on a mission to cut through the digital noise and make marketing strategies accessible and exciting for Embry one. So, yes, if you're thinking this man seems like a match made in heaven for the podcast, then you're right.

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:20]:
I love the fact that this rap line for Spaghetti Agency is no ball, just beef. It really breaks through everything that Todd is about, And I'm sure you're gonna love and I don't say enjoy, I say love this conversation as much as I loved having it as well. Everything from the unexpected ways to connect with audiences on TikTok

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:40]:
to understanding the growth and the shift

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:43]:
in the marketing industry From people that really give a damn, this conversation is full of heart and hopefully great insights that you

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:50]:
can take with you today. And

Fab Giovanetti [00:02:53]:
if you didn't know, Todd is actually one of our top marketers for 2024. Yes. Our list of top marketers is back, And you can check it out and scroll it and follow people and connect with them and see who made the cut at amschool.click/top. A m school dot click slash top. What are you waiting for? Go there, check it out, press pause obviously, and then come back So that you can hear my conversation with Todd. Obviously, it's time now to say this. May today's class begin? So I have a question, which probably everybody asks Siwa and the possible panel and conversations you have. But I want us to talk about it because it's pretty cool.

Fab Giovanetti [00:03:43]:
The name of your agency, Spaghetti Agency, I wanna know why because we like stories. So, yeah, I have to start with a story. So tell us a story, Todd,

Todd [00:03:50]:
tell us a story. Definitely has a story. It's why we picked it. So, We have been in business for about 10 years, and I've always kind of shot from the hip and told people how it is. I think marketing's full of big, complicated words, far too much bullshit. So we were like, We need to be, like, cutting through this noise. And when I met my partner I met my partner on Twitter 12 years ago, something like that now. And we Ran with the brand that she had.

Todd [00:04:15]:
And then it was like, do you know what? We need to rebrand our company. And we went to an agency to do the brand meet, and they came up with 3 concepts. And one of them was the Wild West. And we're like, Interesting. Why did we come up with the Wild West? Where's that idea come from? And then at that point, I was starting to use terms like how do you in emails because I just liked it. I Well, I'm sure you do. And I started using that term, and they sort of got that. And then they said, do you know what? You're kinda like a cowboy.

Todd [00:04:39]:
You sometimes like it is. It's kinda like Yeah. Help people dig for gold. Like, yeah. Cool. Wicked. So they came with this concept. We really loved it.

Todd [00:04:46]:
But the name, I really wanted a name, a word That had two meanings. 1 was wild west. 1 was a meaning that just people just knew of the word, like spaghetti and what tastes good. It's got nothing to do with food. It's got everything to do with spaghetti westerns, Which were directed by an Italian director called Sergio Leone. And that is important because my partner, Joe, is from an Italian family. So The whole thing comes together quite nicely. So that's the idea of it.

Todd [00:05:10]:
And don't ask me my favorite spaghetti western because sadly, very off brand. I don't actually know. I haven't bought that many. I just love the kind of concept of being a cowboy to TLC.

Fab Giovanetti [00:05:21]:
Sadly, you kind of cut through the question I was gonna ask because I was gonna ask you if you were a western fan in any way, shape, or form or not. But it's just because it's interesting. And I think, you know, there's an element of association that we think about, like, how much of ourselves we put into the brand. So I like the fact that you actually put some of his story as well into the brand. And, you know, it's kinda like that decision that we do conscious or subconscious of, like, Do we what we what we keep in and when we take out, what what says our personal passions and what makes us and what about who we are as Humans and how we want to in this case, obviously, agencies, so we wanna communicate with clients and come across in the world. Yeah. What do we wanna bring into the the equation? Like, for example, for us, the word marketing rebels, which is now also on on my hoodie, just like you are also branded in case you're not watching it. Tod is branded too.

Fab Giovanetti [00:06:11]:
She's really good. The marketing, Rebel started to come across as something they came up with. I love the idea of Rebels. I love David Bowie as well. That was a bit of an inspiration, Rebel Rebel and all these things. And then it's what happened was slowly started to stick. We started to see it more and people starting to catching up on that. A bit like the market to heart.

Fab Giovanetti [00:06:28]:
So that's the main one. That's the tagline. A bit like a name itself. But we found that actually old marketing school, It makes sense, and we know what it means. But then, obviously, there's a lot of questions. How is alternative? What does it mean? And so I thought about what are we trying to do and achieve? So sometimes, Yeah. Sometimes it comes organically, like, for you for a rebranding. For us, marketing rebel is just something that I thought about because it kind of sounded cute.

Fab Giovanetti [00:06:50]:
And I kept saying it, and people kept coming back to her. And, sometimes I think we don't understand the value or the power of these associations. I don't know if you've experienced that with Your own choice with the Spaghetti Agency or if you've seen it with some of your clients. But I think a lot of the time in marketing, as I say, cut for the bullshit, but also going back to basics and understanding how we are as humans. Associations or petition really helps because, you know, now every time I see a cowboy. I don't know many cowboy I'm gonna see in my life, Todd, but I don't know how to think of you. Every single time I see a cowboy or cowboy. You know what I mean?

Todd [00:07:22]:
It works. And, you know, they're they're literally everywhere. It's like a cowboy. The people are listening. They've like a cowboy desk. I've got, my daughter loves likes, rubber ducks. She's 6 now, but, so we've got cowboy ducks. Why we we've got Wild West of February because, like you've just said, People go places, and they think of us when they're in a strange place.

Todd [00:07:39]:
The most random story I have of this is a is a connection. Guy met a network in event, connects on LinkedIn. If you do, we got it really well. We we kinda convinced we're kind of same from the same mother in a different life kinda thing. Anyway, he was having a wee in Las Vegas In a wild west themed casino somewhere, it was like having a way thinking of you. So it's helping. Not too far down low, obviously. And, Yeah.

Todd [00:08:03]:
People do think of us. I often get I don't know. I'm gonna cut to your next question here. Now they blocked and say, well, you know, why would you wanna be associated with cowboys? Isn't that a bad thing? It's like, well, it's exactly why Do that. As you think in our industry, there are a lot of cowboys. There are a lot of people that, sell people things that they don't like using, they do things badly. We tend to attract people who Wanna do something a bit different. They wanna cut through the noise.

Todd [00:08:25]:
And they, yeah, they like the brand. But then we also work with some quite serious companies that You would just all wouldn't wanna admit they're working with a cowboy. But it's a really good for me, it's a good acid test a good test in the water. If we're working with someone, it would go through the sales process Someone may get a bit I said it is the wrong word, but they get a bit nervous by the brand. That's my first indication they're not right for us. Because if they're nervous of our brand, how are they gonna be with ideas to stand out and all these types of things? That's a good test for us. Not to say that their nervousness is wrong, Just wrong for us, which means that connectivity would be wrong in the future. So it's a really good filter for us.

Todd [00:09:01]:
If if people are brave enough to work with cowboys, then they're gonna be pretty brave in their So so it works quite well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:09:08]:
I love that you mentioned that, and it goes back to a converse when we met and we had a conversation. And, yes, Dear listener, if you are, a very loyal listener, I did run up to Todd. He was like, hello, were you sad? Can we talk again? Can we chat?

Todd [00:09:22]:
That's me. Excited.

Fab Giovanetti [00:09:23]:
That's me. Like, Yeah. Pretty much. And he didn't run away. I mean, maybe he wanted to, but he didn't. So that was really polite.

Todd [00:09:29]:
No. It's a very small room. It would have been obvious.

Fab Giovanetti [00:09:31]:
See? I know how to quote on my people. Anyway but What you just mentioned, going back to that, we actually talked about something that we bought shared when it comes to I guess it goes back to the uniqueness that I didn't realize at the time, but We think about clients qualifying us in a way, like, whether we are the right fit for them, but we don't talk about enough, especially our marketers in a way where actually there's more and more marketing agencies, marketing consultants marketing people in the world about us qualifying the clients to make sure that they also are right fit for us. And There's sometimes what stops us from doing that, and we talked about obviously saying no and, you know, letting things down and The opportunities. And you talked within that, which I loved about also trusting your team and really kind of knowing that, you know, you can get your team and the people By within your space in the agency to do things because you trust that they will do the right thing. I think there's a lot of power in that, and also there's a lot of clarity about what you wanna do, Don't wanna do how you wanna be perceived. Right?

Todd [00:10:28]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I'm taking the point you're saying. Someone asked, but how do you give I think it was, like, Ptolemy, she, Timo, the question on the panel that was on where we met. And the thing is, like, our brand ballets, which are on the wall here. They're on the there's 1 over there somewhere. It's 1 over there. They're everywhere.

Todd [00:10:42]:
We see them. There's 1 actually in the toilet, you know, above the handrail, so only people who dry their hands, wash their hands. You know? The people I wanna speak to actually know that. And it's an important thing. Right? And so the autonomy we can give to our teams, I'm happy for them to call any of our clients, email any of our clients, post on any of our social media because they get what we are about. And we're about that with ourselves. So our brand values, ensuring that we're there, honesty is everything, grow with gratitude, be community to account folks, shoot from the hip, all play no All were, no pay, no way. Those things, those is how we will operate with our clients, with ourselves, with everything that we do.

Todd [00:11:17]:
So it becomes easy. I think Often, a brand is looked at as something you put on a letterhead in the old fashioned days in a more modern world. Your Instagram highlights, your profile pictures, everything else. But It's actually how you communicate with people. It's how you answer questions and podcasts. It it's how you do everything, And it needs to be almost the blueprint on the DNA of of your team, your business, and then that kind of, like, magnet where you attract the clients to as well. You really have to own your brand. Think that's what people who that's what people who don't understand brand don't get.

Todd [00:11:47]:
It's not a set of logos and some some JPEGs and a few colored palettes. It's everything. It's the whole message, but also internally as well as externally. So, so, yeah, we we trust our team to Make decisions about events and things because sometimes they're just sales. It's not based back, is it? And they'll push back on me if I come up with an idea and say, it's not really what we're about. Like, ah, do you know what? You're bang on. You're spot on with that. It works really well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:12:12]:
I love that because within that, there's an element of Education without educating. I think when you lead with values, that becomes a piece of that education. And there's repetition in there again as you said about them being literally everywhere. And I think it's that reminder that then when you, you know, when you take the time to bring the team into the is it bad that the word company culture makes me cringe because

Todd [00:12:32]:
it made me feel No. Good. They like I hate that shit too.

Fab Giovanetti [00:12:35]:
But you know but you know what I mean. Like, let's use the name, semantics. Very, very big fan of semantics. Again, dear listeners will know, language to graduate. So I love semantics. But the word itself But there's a point in that within the idea of company culture as how are you building you know, how are you on are you Explaining the value, not just the values, but the value of the work that you do to your team to be like, actually, the work we do, this is the impact that it has. This is Why is great for others, like clients, but also it's great for us as a team. This is what you can gain out of this, etcetera, etcetera.

Fab Giovanetti [00:13:08]:
And then it builds all of these little nudges. But then as you say, when it comes to decisions to be made, they can even challenge you, and you have the grace to be like, yeah. I'm okay with being challenged because this was actually probably not The best idea for for this campaign and stuff. I have a big question, but maybe it's a small question or a bit I don't know. I'm gonna say it. What does great marketing look like? What is actually great marketing in your opinion Going with all the things that great marketing is not. I don't know. Maybe that's a easier question.

Fab Giovanetti [00:13:39]:
What is it not? But, I wanna get to that point because There's so many different answers, but there's so many different threads that I think come back again and again to this question.

Todd [00:13:47]:
I mean, gray marketing is not most of the marketing you see. Red marketing is not great at all. Most marketing is not even good enough. In fact, my my own marketing included. Like, Most marketing is all great. I think great marketing is marketing that creates conversations. Far too often, like, sales and marketing are put in the same sentence. And, yes, they do Join your marketing leads to sales.

Todd [00:14:09]:
Great. But far too often, especially if social media is used as a sales channel, I think that's definitely not great marketing. It's not what it's about. You're not supposed to take all of the the features, not the benefits, but the features from your website, copy and paste them and pop onto LinkedIn. You know? That's not great marketing. Great marketing should, spark conversations, create debate, encourage conversations, encourage people to to come up to you. It should Create that kind of noise where when you go to an event, people come up to you and say, I've been following you for a while. I've seen you everywhere.

Todd [00:14:39]:
And that could happen after it as well. Should be something that people would want to engage with. Yes, it should be relevant to what's going on, but, you know, if I see another brand trying to line himself with a Barbie movie, I'm gonna shoot my phone. Like, sometimes it goes a bit too much. Like, you know, oh, we need to be topical. We need to be trending. What what day is it? Always national cake day. Yes.

Todd [00:14:57]:
Those things are relevant, valuable, but I think great marketing goes beyond that. It really digs into who are you trying to speak to, who you're trying to attract, and what do they really, really care about. As an aside, I've got a TikTok channel that I I it's completely my own personal stuff. I get I've been drinking over a couple of years ago. And I've always wanted to talk about so it's not marketing on a channel. It's not related to anything. So I thought I'm gonna talk about this kind of sobriety journey. And I know what those people want here.

Todd [00:15:25]:
Because that's why I was doing it just a couple of years ago. We're in wondering about what would happen if I could drink it, what are the benefits of it, how long does it take, Well, I miss drinking or alcohol free drinks. So all of these questions I was asking, I now put that onto TikTok. And I know that audience. I know what they want, and then I respond to the content on there. Most of my content on TikTok comes from people who are Asking questions in my videos, I think that's great marketing. Is it that that live responding to your audience, your ideal audience rather than saying, Oh, it's election week or or it's Christmas or it's yeah. We should just do what John Lewis are doing this week.

Todd [00:16:02]:
I I think that's where marketing Can get a little bit lost. It's it's losing the point in it, which is to attract the right people to your to your brand or business.

Fab Giovanetti [00:16:12]:
You said something that that it's part of my one of my definitions of great marketing, one of the ways that I see marketing being, which is And you said it within the attracting people, but you said the right people to your business. And that's what I say, which goes against what some people think marketing being, which is that There's the international sales, which profit is good. Growth is good. But I think there's this thing that marketing is persuasion, and to be marketing shouldn't be persuasion, but should be direction. If you direct If you direct the right people to you, instead of persuading them to get something they don't goddamn need, then you're actually doing the right thing by saying to people, this is what we do to we can help you. And if somebody really cannot be helped by you or if your product is not the right fit for them, having the you know, being open to be like, actually, we're not the right fit you and having those conversations to help them make the best decision, that to me and it goes back to that element of connection as well. So I just wanted to Say that because you mentioned that bit about right people, and I think that was really important Yeah. Because we don't tend to think about it enough, I think, as well.

Fab Giovanetti [00:17:10]:
And I wanna add in 1 more note, and I wanna hear your opinion on that. Because, Again, you mentioned to me before this conversation about your your TikTok and the sobriety piece, and that also spoke to me because it's been almost now 7 years I've been sober, and it's something that, you know, I I love to talk about and also support other people with because as we both know, it's Unique, but also think there's some commonalities within the journeys. And what I love about the example that you brought aside from Actually, the insights themselves is that reminder that when we challenge ourselves, whether it's because we're passionate about something or because we just wanna try something or it's because we wanna tap into our creativity, To do something without expectations, I think it can teach us so much more about how our marketing and especially how to Connect with people online. Then when we have, like, so many expectations and KPIs and metrics, now that there's nothing wrong with communicating that, there's obviously explaining expectations and what we're doing and what we're doing it. But I think we it's hard for people to think about doing that enough. And I don't know if that's part of what you have learned also from that journey of just doing something for the hell of it, for passion, and learning so much about what you can do on the other side of thing when

Todd [00:18:18]:
it comes to nature. 100%. Thank you for raising it. It's I don't think about enough. They they've come a TikTok journey up where I've just I I always just wanted to share the stuff I was thinking about. And I was like, How many cluster up my LinkedIn and then Instagram with it? So you're right. There was no KPIs. There was no there's nothing to sell.

Todd [00:18:36]:
You know? I've I've had hundreds of DMs on TikTok, and I respond to all of them because I understand these people are in vulnerable situations and just want someone to listen to them. So I I can't offer advice. I'm trained to do it. But I look at anger. If I was a sobriety coach, which is a thing apparently, I have to add this since going on TikTok. If I was a sobriety coach, it's like a 150 leads from TikTok, But I've never had anything to sell. Therefore, I couldn't sold what didn't exist. So I haven't done any sell.

Todd [00:19:01]:
All I've done is talk and connect. And You're right. It's it's it's reframed and and, retaught me in opposite. It it but it actually, when you completely ignore the sales, because there was nothing Sales, so I couldn't ignore wasn't there. And you just create content. You really did connect to a level with human beings. And people have reached out to me on there, Said, can you help me? You know? Some people have accused me of selling to you. I'm like, what? I have nothing to sell.

Todd [00:19:28]:
It's a strange thing. You know? There are people that are selling courses. They could not sue them, but, it it it really brings back into the forefront for me that how I started marketing. Well, I I had no nothing to prove. I started back in 2010 on Twitter, I think. I have yeah. Definitely on Twitter for, well, a job I had. I didn't even tell them they're on Twitter.

Todd [00:19:48]:
I just signed them up, Poem on there. I had no idea what I was doing. I just had fun with it. And I got bored of selling stuff. So I was like telling the story of their business, and that worked. That got us into newspapers and eventually got into The houses of parliament in London, in the UK, and all sorts. It was amazing, just from sharing the story of a van driver. Because it was something that people were like, oh my god.

Todd [00:20:07]:
I I relate to that. No sales pitches. Nothing. And yet it's still filled, wine tastings and events. Like, my TikTok filled mailbox of people asking to buy something I don't have. You know? So I think it's nice, and it's liberating when it there really is no pressure on the market. The moment you put pressure on it. Of course, you have to have KPIs.

Todd [00:20:27]:
You know? I spoke to clients today on sales calls. You know? What does success look like? It's a conversation we have. And it's like, gonna be difficult to prove all the success from you disrupting it. It's such a difficult thing. Like, what's the success of your podcast? What's the success of talking to me today? You ever good about the traffic? Probably not. It's a challenge, isn't it? But you still do it, and a lot of people do do it. So, yeah, it's been liberating to share just Just share for the hell a bit. Put a story out there.

Todd [00:20:52]:
Been good.

Fab Giovanetti [00:20:55]:
And I know you're going back to some elements also of kinda working with clients and agency, and it Kind of brought back another thought. So I I asked you very well question about creative marketing. And now I wanna get into a topic that we don't talk about necessarily much because we do a lot of upskilling when it comes to different areas of marketing, which we love. And also talking about different kind of journeys. But I have seen talking about, obviously, the world of marketing expanding a lot because the digital marketing expanding in itself. There's also been a rise in, obviously, the noise with marketers when it comes to agencies themselves. So as somebody who runs an agency as well, I'm gonna go again and prod. Just going back to the idea of the campfire, from from the spaghetti vibe.

Fab Giovanetti [00:21:37]:
And just kinda ask, you know, what are some of the things that frustrate you when it comes to, You know, the rise of agencies and the rise of support, which is great in some way and marketing agency, and that has got some Great pros when it comes to the people that need and the businesses that need that. But also, obviously, with the rise of more and more people, There's a lot more noise, and there's the good, the bad, and the ugly. I will start with the Western references, I swear.

Todd [00:22:01]:
And no giga. It's good to know.

Fab Giovanetti [00:22:03]:
We're just riding with it. But Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna hear your opinion on that, running an agency yourself.

Todd [00:22:08]:
Yeah. I love it. I love the competition. I really do. I think, everyone has JT, I mean, look. I started from the the cockpit, the transit van. That that's where I started my agency. From an iPhone 3 GS, which I still have in the bottom drawer down there, kept that.

Todd [00:22:20]:
It's kind of like that was my portal a new life, genuine genuinely, that's what it was. Everyone deserves an opportunity and everyone deserves choice. I do actually think there's enough business out there for everyone. We have taken an inverted commas for those listing business from other agencies without meaning to. We've also lost an inverted commas business smaller agencies, larger agencies, without meaning to, you know, people buy from people. Humans need a connection, which is why in about that TikTok piece I talked about just now, that's why I'm getting connection on there. Are connecting with me on a human level. It's the same in business.

Todd [00:22:50]:
So, yes, there's loads of noise. There's loads of other agencies out there. We've all got our own ideas. There's some commonalities in the middle of it. But I think what makes people stand out is themselves. And so when I do sales calls, I am myself. I mean, this is literally where I stand to do my sales calls, by the way. Is it.

Todd [00:23:07]:
This is where I am all day. I'm working here on sales calls. This is looks like my home. It's actually my office, but this is my home. You know, this is where I am. So I'm comfortable just being who we are. The whole team does that as well. So, yeah, as much as sometimes I look at the competitors and think, oh, bloody hell, you know, they're speaking and they then all they've got their exhibition slot or Oh, they did well on LinkedIn last week.

Todd [00:23:27]:
Really, it's the comparison yeah. Comparison's a seat for joy. If you're looking at if you're looking at your competition all the time worrying about the noise, know, you're not really looking at your own stuff. So, over the course of the last 10 years, I haven't really had competition because I haven't been booked for it. Because we've kinda just focused on their own shit, to be honest. I'm just like, I'm sure there are competitors out there. But, yeah, it's noisy. But it's easy to get on with it.

Todd [00:23:51]:
Now with the rise of AI and ChatGPT, everyone's bloody expert writing content now. So, you know, everyone just writes you know, people are writing books, publishing them on Amazon. Oh, I write a book. Well, did you? Well, no. No. I put it in chat DBC then because I published it, and now it's actually an author. It's just nonsense, really. There's a lot of nonsense out there.

Todd [00:24:07]:
But, yeah, you know, competition's competition. Keeps you sharp. But

Fab Giovanetti [00:24:12]:
I I love that idea as well. I think If if anything is kind of finding the balance between especially because whether you like it or not, you will be exposed to other people doing similar things to you if you're just Showing up online, which is obviously what some of us do when it comes to creating content. So even if you're trying to actually kinda stay in your own lane, and I love that idea of actually keeping you sharp. There's an element of just looking at what other people aren't doing. And if anything, what helps me doing is actually making my decisions of how I want to run my business Sometimes as well, as you say, I love the example of AI. Do you want to use it? Do you want not to use it? How do you wanna use it? How do you wanna embrace it? I think these are questions that we need to ask ourselves. And one of the things that I said in a couple of conversations in the past couple of weeks is that the worst thing about, Especially in an industry like like the marketing industry that has so many strands is that if we don't talk openly about what we do, Do what we try, what we are afraid of, what are some of the challenges that we have, then we're never gonna grow. And that comes from the challenges and the positives of Running your own business, but all the way to AI, which probably is gonna be yet, again, the biggest conversation in 2024.

Fab Giovanetti [00:25:20]:
I think if we're not open about whether how we feel about these things, never gonna be able to learn and educate ourselves and our clients because one of the challenges that we currently have, in general is, as you say, setting expectations for PIs, which you mentioned as success. And then is also, you know, then explaining or educating your clients about, this is how we run our agency. This is what we do. This is How we do it and potentially even this is how we integrate other tools within what we do. So I wanted to hear what you've been thinking about aside From the new AI authors, which Lol, being being a published author myself, I would say, takes, you know, it takes a long time to write a little book, baby. Yeah. When I hear What are your thoughts about whether you want to, you're not going to, or how you're gonna integrate potentially AI and automation to the work?

Todd [00:26:08]:
I I think, you know, you don't make a decision if you use AI in your business. It's all here. You you use AI and everything. You you know, if you've had a smartphone for the last 5 or 6 years as AI, not use Facebook ads or bulk with Facebook ads or use Facebook ads or you're using AI, Google advertising. And then it's like you're using AI. Almost everything's AI powered now. I think an open bread is AI powered. I think everything's got AI in it.

Todd [00:26:29]:
You know, enhanced by AI. You know? GM AI. Like, you know, Nothing's real anymore, so I don't think you can avoid it. Should you embrace it? Yes. I mean, the event we were at, actually, there was a brilliant speaker. I forget her name. Human. Let her name let me know.

Todd [00:26:41]:
And and she was talking about AI. It's a fantastic talk. And I said, can I ask a really old bloody question? I think that was actually my quote. And I said, should we really be adopting AI if everyone around the world is telling us it's basically gonna destroy humanity? You know, Some people might sorry. Most of the kind of experts, Elon Musk, Mo Gauta, are saying slow the shit down. You know? Even our own prime minister's gone and said, hang on. Slow down. And she said, well, you know, you you could not adopt it, but then you're gonna miss out.

Todd [00:27:10]:
And that's kind of the the challenge that we've got here. So I think you have to embrace AI. There are some great ways of doing it. There are some poor ways of doing it as always, but it's it's a tool. This is if you use it well, Great. You did poorly. Great. You know, it it's there's an amazing opportunity for it.

Todd [00:27:26]:
I think you have to be upfront about it though. Initially, It was a tool that was secret in marketing circles. We were sort of using it, and they'd be like, oh, it's gonna speed up our processes. No one will find out. It's like, I think I think it's out there now. Most people know it exists. And there's tools that check tools and tech tools that we have put into our processes and our documents that we may use AI tools at times, but we'll always add a human element to it. Most of our scheduling software, so if we were at Eventware Planable, Shout out to those guys.

Todd [00:27:59]:
Great platform. They've got an AI content generator within there that kinda proofreads and checks things Grammarly. It's no useful tool, not AI, but That will soon come along. I think there's a massive opportunity for agencies and everyone else to use AI in their business. So, yes, you should use it. Will we be helping the fall of humanity in 6 years' time, like, offer to terminate movies? Probably. But will we lose our business if we don't? Probably. It's a it's a really interesting conversation around.

Todd [00:28:31]:
I I saw Mo gather at an event the other week. They spoke out the event. I didn't see anything. I didn't go to him and say, hey, Moe. He was speaking at the event. Fantastic talk. And You can see this guy's really scared. He he's genuinely scared about AI, but not chat GPT AI.

Todd [00:28:48]:
He's concerned about what Russia and China are gonna do with AI. That's the the the potentially huge, for it. Like anything, you know, it's a tool, and you can use it good or bad. A hammer, you can hammer a nail and make a Treehouse, so you can coach a lot with it. You know? It's the same with AI, I think. You could do some great stuff with it, or you could do something terrible with it. So we're using it. We like it.

Todd [00:29:10]:
We use it, concepts. We've got tools that listen to video conversations we have. We have a tool called Otter, which follows me by Alonzo, which which listens to my calls, transcribes, and gives me notes. It's fantastic. We use ChatTPC. They come on concepts, creation. It helps us out Rewriting copy routes and stuff. There's always that human element.

Todd [00:29:29]:
And I think this has been my prediction for a while. Eventually, it'll come full circle. And what's really gonna be important Human stuff. Because you wrote a book, but you you wrote a book. You are a human being, flesh and blood at your x amount of years old, and you've been through experience. An AI tool writing a book is not the same. There's no heart and soul. There's no experience.

Todd [00:29:47]:
You can't go on to the author and say, I love that point in chapter 3. Can you tell me more? Because it's a you're not gonna get an actual storage from it. So I do think video content, podcasting, I don't see that being replaced by AI because humans want humans. I just think that's always gonna be.

Fab Giovanetti [00:30:05]:
I love that you mentioned that because one of my biggest one of the biggest flags that I raise all the time is the power of stories. I am biased. I'm a storyteller. I love stories. And, again, I am biased, but whenever people bought my book and they actually know me, which is always very nice And very humbling. And it comes to me and it's like, oh my god. It sounds like you. And I was like, yeah.

Fab Giovanetti [00:30:24]:
I know. I brought it. But the thing is, obviously, you can write something and write it in a different tone of voice. So just kinda you know? But I just made the practice to make sure that my writing, especially when it's, like, my writing, it sounds like me because I wanted to feel that way. And it goes back to, yes, again, the listener, the repetition piece, whether it's, the even the way that you sound, the things that you say. And there's an element of the storytelling we're gonna bring back, which I think is the reminder that I generally The I I struggle. My memory is horrible. Like, literally, the goldfish kind of, like, stereotypies me.

Fab Giovanetti [00:30:57]:
But I will remember a story. Goddamn it if I don't remember a good story. I will probably forget 90% of the conversation that I have, and I have a lot of podcasts, but I always obsess to hear the stories from our people and our guests because this is where the magic happens. And I think Once we learn how to cultivate to go back to the marketing piece, and once we learn how to cultivate and we even suggest our students to collect stories. Like, great stories that you have, even anecdotes that you think may support a point that you wanna make when it comes to what you're trying to teach or sell or whatever. It's powerful because people will remember those little things, and we are curious by nature. And it goes back to your point of going full circles and bringing the humans back.

Todd [00:31:37]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Fab Giovanetti [00:31:39]:
And, you know, it's making more time for that. I mean, AI

Todd [00:31:41]:
can tell stories. It can take our stories from the Internet and tell those stories. So AI can tell a story. Is and and to to go back to your point, like, you remember stories because we're hardwired for stories. Someone says, I'm gonna tell you a story. This is why gossip is so popular. This is why Big Brother, the TV show, which is utter tripe, is so powerful. Because it's like you're following the story.

Todd [00:32:00]:
And I was one of those people in the early days that stayed awake all night with In the in the booth of the house watching these people, like, this a real life story. You couldn't recreate that with AI either. I think stories, you you look at everything that's That goes viral. There's a story behind it. TED talks. The most popular TED talks have always got stories and podcasts, our stories. You and I are literally exchanging stories we speak, we will remember some of this information because the stories I've always been told to use a a 20 minute presentation, start with a story, Get halfway through it, then deliver the content, and then finish the story because it wraps that information into a story. It finishes the loop, and it's a it's a technique of helping people retain information.

Todd [00:32:39]:
And once you know this stuff, you start seeing it everywhere. And you think, wow. Everything's got a story in it. It's we're recording this in December. So this, you know, Christmas adverts have been well and gone now. They came out probably in July. But they've been out a while. They've all got story in.

Todd [00:32:53]:
They don't come out and say, buy almonds, Pies get our piggy blankets now. They're only 2.99. They're they're like, here's a story of a family Christmas because you retain that information. And I think that's also something I've been reminded of recently by just going off the piece to share my story on TikTok. It seems like people like the story. I really like a story. So going back to your first question, what makes great marketing? A story makes great marketing.

Fab Giovanetti [00:33:16]:
Then going back to the human piece, we talked about a few things already. But as well as stories, which shows is the latest piece we talked about, can you think about one other great way. Either you do what encourages an agency, or do you think we can make marketing more human?

Todd [00:33:31]:
Yeah. Be yourself. Like you said in your book, you wrote it, people said, oh my god. It sounds like you. Yeah. I wrote it. Like, that's what people want. And I think that's going to be more, going back to our predictions, going to be more important when AI starts to be Out there because most lazy people are gonna use tech.

Todd [00:33:46]:
They're gonna fight. You would be love a shortcut. You see a gate with a shortcut on the left hand side, the grass is water because we all cut through the gate. You know? So people are gonna take the shortcuts. Being yourself online, I've I've always done this. After the 1st 3 months on Twitter, I got bored of selling wires. Ours myself, and now that's what I do. Some people don't like me.

Todd [00:34:05]:
I'm alright with that now. Some people do, and some people buy from us because they do. So How can you inject more human human into your into your marketing, Mike, talk by your team? When we look at the social media reports for our clients, It's always the team content that goes things better because other people are interested in your people. When I look at the analytics of our website, the Top 2 pages on our website. Well, there's 2 blogs that have been evergreen for ages, so I'll discount those. But the other 2 pages the about page and our client page. People wanna know who they're gonna work with and who we currently work with because they're people. They're interested in that kind of thing.

Todd [00:34:40]:
So you can't get away from that. So if you're gonna look at your marketing and say, like, I want to be more human, have some real life content on your blog. Have some real life Stories. Up use Instagram stories as they're supposed to be, like, throwaway content. I was talking to a videographer the other day, and he said, you know, he's he's basically got rid of all these 4 k cameras and all the cool shit he used to have. He said, no one wants proper video anymore. They want smartphone video. That's what they want.

Todd [00:35:04]:
So you just get a selfie stick or something, hold your iPhone, create a video. It's it's because it's real life, and it's it's human. You only have to scroll through TikTok to see that even the big brands, like, there's loads of Whoop And they're using actual people who use Whoop, and they're doing the same style videos that everyone else is doing. And it takes a while to realize it's an ad because it's real. It's a real, like, human thing. So, Yeah. It's it that I think it's actually scary and easy to be cute. Most people but I guess most people are kinda scared to be Sales, although they're worried it might make them look professional doing their quotes again.

Todd [00:35:39]:
But, you know, it really really isn't.

Fab Giovanetti [00:35:42]:
It's really interesting what you mentioned there about whoop as well because if, Again, when you are especially I'm thinking like about b to c, so business to consumer or obviously direct to consumer, d to c brand. And you're like, well, How much of our sales we put in. You also have to remember that you also have your most wonderful people, which to me, it's a lesson for any of marketing. So b to b, b to c, which is your customers, your users, your audience. You can actually think about that user generated content if you were to say, I wanna inject more human, But, obviously, I still wanted to make a bit more relevant to what we do. And one of the tips that I always give our students, which they're listener if you've been listening to this podcast, you know what I'm gonna say, Use your customer words, Got them, ma'am. Like, use their language. And I think there's a curse of knowledge.

Fab Giovanetti [00:36:25]:
I don't know if you know what that is, which is that sometimes, you know, sometimes we we say things in a certain way, and that's why I always try to explain words on acronym because, you know, listen. I know you know your things, but maybe you don't know one specific term. And then you're gonna be like, what does that actually mean? And that can go with a lot of things. Curse of knowledge or understanding is bridging that gap. And so the more you get Custom to how your people speak, the more you can actually create content or just copy or just messaging that really speaks to them. And I think that's another thing to remember within this mix of making marketing more human. Sometimes we genuinely overthink it, and I love what you said about also just Being yourself and injecting that behind the scene element. I don't know if you've seen.

Fab Giovanetti [00:37:08]:
I'm I'm I'm a lot on Instagram. And Instagram, a lot of the content is literally b roll, it's called. So is the show your camera roll, and then there are some quotes or some lessons of some education. But what hooks people in is that kind of idea of, what TikTok says, which is Make TikTok, not ads. That's literally their slogan for their advertising. And that's a similar concept. It's like Content there, you can kinda easily scroll for, and it gives a bit of a glimpse of what people are doing. And then within that, you sneak in that message that is still very relevant, Still in your audience's voice, still tapping into their aspirations or pinpoints or questions.

Fab Giovanetti [00:37:42]:
But I think it's it's to me, personally, I don't know if that was with your TikTok journey. It's liberating because, god damn it, we don't we underestimate how much content marketing actually requires, Whether you were doing it for clients or yourselves, how much time? How much time, Todd? How many things we could do with that time? You know?

Todd [00:37:59]:
Absolutely. No. You'd it you raise a great point about the kinda, Yeah. The abbreviations and you know, whenever I say SEO to apply, let's say search engine optimization. I'm gonna use the term SEO because it's quicker to say that that's what it means. I don't assume they know what it means. And I think that's that's why we've got no ball just beat because our tagline marketing's full of ball. We'll say these grand words.

Todd [00:38:20]:
I think sometimes, you know, because we're human beings. I don't know how on what percentage we are running on autopilot. We're running on autopilot, And we're saying what we think we need to sell, what we've always said. It's only when you pattern interrupts something and you say you know, you you you say a cuss word on the sales zoo or you We'll turn up wearing a cowboy hat. You just say you you break the pattern. You're like, oh, where am I? What's going on? What's happening? And with the abbreviations and things like that, I think most people just say it because they've always they've always done it. And no one's ever sent you didn't realize that most of your audience don't know that abbreviation. They don't understand what that means.

Todd [00:38:51]:
Most people don't understand what Search engine optimization means most people don't understand what content marketing is, so we don't use that term either. They don't get it. They what they understand is leads, sales, More people understanding what we do. More people hearing about us. I start there and then educate them there. And so I end up Talking about the analytics or the end result of marketing rather than the marketing itself. No one wants to see another graph from your analytics and some KPIs and some Green ticks on the the amount of clients I speak to, especially in the Google advertising world, but they say, yeah, we've got an agency at the moment. So what's the communication like? Oh, they send us report everywhere.

Todd [00:39:27]:
And and then the conversation stops dead because I know what they do with that report. They just save it in a file somewhere. It's full of jargon. Don't understand what it means. I've got no idea what CPA, CPC. I've got no idea what it means. Whereas if they just said, we spent £500 this month. And we can see from your from your data at the back, we think that return, £3,000 of sales, is that okay? That's what the audience needs to know, the real life stuff.

Todd [00:39:51]:
I do think a lot of people are just in autopilot, and, you know, I just think like, I went to a a a my my daughter's Carol Konstant last night, which is second solo, and I'm super proud of her. She's 6, and she absolutely smashed it. And, the whole of the thing in the performance in a church, so it's, you know, it's about God and stuff on block religious, but it you know, it's a story. The Bible's a story. But what actually is the bible is a list of commandments, rules, and things to help you to live a certain way. And they're telling a story. It's a human story. We all know all the characters, like Harry and Joseph, and there's a dog king.

Todd [00:40:24]:
It's like, there's real life people to this story, and we all know the story. You know? I think I think you only have to look at The way children play it, the way people would network it. Yeah. The first thing people say they're gonna network in is, where have you come from? What's the weather like? Do you come here off to boring British chitchat. We're interested in that. That's how we start. So, yeah, I think just stripping it down, being all yourself. I know from the analytics of our client socials is that, Oh, a dog came to an office today.

Todd [00:40:51]:
That's the post that does well. It's never the here's our call, blah blah blah. No. No one can no one give gives a shit about our stuff.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:00]:
There was a a brilliant LinkedIn post about well, I think it's in actually 3 different different instances over over 6 months about, You know, we're excited to announce, like, you know, it starts with in the emoji comments, we're excited to announce. And then he says, your Audience doesn't care. And I love them because it made me laugh so much. 3 different people picking up on that is like, you know, we it's like, I understand where you wanna do

Todd [00:41:23]:
it. Yeah.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:23]:
Yeah. Think about it. We're excited to announce that we've done this. Okay. Fine. But

Todd [00:41:29]:
I like it when I get an email And

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:30]:
I think it's that, Blomont.

Todd [00:41:31]:
I agree. I like it when I get an email from company. When they say, we're excited to announce you now get this deeper, you know, analytics on. Yes. I'm excited about that because that matters to me because that means my reporting and my media is great. But, yeah, when someone says, we're excited to announce we've we've hired a new team member. It's like, great. You know? Friends.

Todd [00:41:49]:
Yeah. Like, I don't care. It's not really that interesting. I think we've got it rather away.

Fab Giovanetti [00:41:55]:
Yeah. I agree. I think it's just Thinking about the context. Like, if if you can frame it in a way that it makes sense to me, then whether we like it or not, as we say, we like shortcuts. We're working on the pilot, and we're looking at what's in it for us. And it's I think it's also going bigger and bigger when it comes to that mentality because of the fact that we are busy. And there is a lot going on, and there is a lot of information that we have come to consume. And as you say, our brain is selecting what we should be thinking about based on what our problems, our triggers, and our interests.

Fab Giovanetti [00:42:21]:
And there is an element of psychology in marketing that we don't think about, but then you go back to marketing Humans human psychology. How we think and how and how we decide what to do. And as you say, who to trust. I think that's a big part of what you mentioned about the educational piece, But you're slightly educating and directing your clients by explaining things in a way that is tangible to them. You're actually building that trust, instead of ticking that box. And I think that's my biggest pet peeve when it comes to when I say the agency world as in kinda working with clients, it's just, Okay. Other people maybe do reports, and that's fine. But think about how can you deliver the most value to your clients? How can you give them the most thing? Knowing what are their problems.

Fab Giovanetti [00:43:02]:
If their hard news because they're busy, Can you give them what they need when they need it, and then the rest is great, but let's cut the flop or cut the ball depending on how you're feeling about it. So, like, this

Todd [00:43:11]:
the You've probably heard of the reticular activator system. So it's called RAS, where if you're going to choose a new car, you'll see that car everywhere. And if you think about that in your client's world, if you solve a particular problem, what is their RAS looking at when they're having that problem? What are the things they are looking for for? What are the types of words and and things that they are seeing? Forget your solution. They're not talking about that. When I go to buy a new car, I'm not looking at, like, Cams and pistons and bearings. I'm looking at, like, how I feel when I'm in the car. I'm probably choosing stupid stuff like the color and what badge it's got. You know? That's the stuff that the that the car companies will market, and they do.

Todd [00:43:49]:
Any car advert you're gonna see is someone driving a car in a beautiful road with no other cars on it because that's what we all No other people, wasn't it? Just the car. That's what they're selling. They're not talk really talking about all the bits and pieces around it. And I think when you when you, Yeah. When you consider the you know, lots of research analysts says we have 60, 70,000 thoughts a day, but your brains only focus on about 7 things. You'll focus on the things that matter to you. So if you're in a crowded room with thousands of people and someone shouts your name on the other side of the room, no matter what's going on, you'll hear your name. And you'll also see Loads more of your cars.

Todd [00:44:23]:
So, Min, one, one of our team drives a blue Fiat 500. All of you now are thinking of a blue Fiat 500. Some of you may well start to see more Fiat pop hundreds if you keep saying that over and over. I can't believe how many of those cars on the road, and I've never seen one since before and then started to it. You've been there a year. I see those things everywhere. So thinking about that, what are your audience thinking about when they have the problem that you fix? Those types of things you need to be talking about. Not the solution you offer, but the things that Showing up in their world.

Todd [00:44:50]:
That's the stuff that they're gonna see on LinkedIn, on Instagram, here on a podcast. That that's my problem. That's what I have. That's the thing. I've that's how I see it with my language. You'll get way more interest, much more scroll stopping stuff. And that's why on TikTok, you know, TikTok say create TikTok dot ads. What that means, in the 1st 3 or 4 seconds, say the 2 things your audience are interested in because they're already being fed content like that.

Todd [00:45:14]:
We will then show your contents, and it'll keep them on our platform. It's it's the reticular Activator system in digital form that's working by that.

Fab Giovanetti [00:45:20]:
It's so powerful what you mentioned about, like, the triggers as well and the things that then we kinda start seeing as patterns as Which is kind of part of what you mentioned there. Because for example, then what I love about it is just to bring you a real life example. It also brings relatability. I'm gonna now I'm gonna know forever that Lyns car is a Fiat 500 because we just bought a Fiat 500, and it's blue. Choose a blue little Fiat 500 x. No. You don't. So that's what I'm gonna think about.

Todd [00:45:42]:
Is it is it like light blue, Eggshell blue. It was in target.

Fab Giovanetti [00:45:45]:
Like, well, you can't if if you cannot see Todd's T shirt, he's like your T shirt. So it's like a big electric blue. It's

Todd [00:45:50]:
like a world blue.

Fab Giovanetti [00:45:50]:
She's got vibes. She's cute. She's a she, by the way. She's got she's got Vybe. She's got SaaS. But that's what I'm gonna think about now. And, obviously, we were talking to Lenne because she was supporting with, with Organizing this interview. And now that's what I'm gonna think about.

Fab Giovanetti [00:46:01]:
Power of association is really, really powerful. Todd, before we actually kinda close down, I have to do my quick fire because quick fire is we're winding down. I could talk about things for hours, but we both have things to do. So I'm gonna ask you To choose between this or that, I'm gonna have a couple of options, and you'll have to tell me which one you are going to keep. Ready to start? It's Quickfire Time, Spotify, playlist, or podcast?

Todd [00:46:31]:
Podcast.

Fab Giovanetti [00:46:32]:
Voice note or text?

Todd [00:46:35]:
Oh, my friends know me. It's the they're called tobcasts because I said, like, 9 minute Voice note. I should probably keep text because they were there or tag them.

Fab Giovanetti [00:46:45]:
Well, the the thing is these days, I think WhatsApp and messages like, the cries of of desperation from some of the people that are text people. Because we have very strong campsite. It's like it's rarely like how it doesn't matter. It's one or the other. Yeah. And so now you can actually look at transcripts. I think that's been a change just to actually help people. If

Todd [00:47:02]:
you tell me if you tell me you don't like voice notes, you're fucking doing voice notes. I'm obsessed. Top tip to people. That's what all they do is.

Fab Giovanetti [00:47:10]:
And then you see a transcript that is literally like a Shakespearean monologue, and you're like, okay, strap in.

Todd [00:47:14]:
Apple have run out Apple have run out of danger in the scene. Like, Jesus, Todd's still talking. Yeah.

Fab Giovanetti [00:47:19]:
I love that. I think I might know the answer for this one, but maybe I was surprised. Carousels are reels.

Todd [00:47:26]:
That is a tough one actually because because of TikTok, I love a reel. I watch a lot of reel. But for marketing, it's very this is this is an it depends question. I'm creating content for clients, and LinkedIn carousels They're the bomb for most of our clients. They work really well because video just doesn't seem to work for the current clients that we've got. But personally, from our open subject, I'm being uber selfish here, which I'm gonna I wanna keep reels because I love reels, Facebook, Instagram. I watch a lot of Facebook reels. I don't know how that happened.

Todd [00:47:55]:
I started doing it. Now I'm there. I'm like, what? What? I'm am I using this wrong? You're not supposed to watch Facebook reels. You're supposed to watch TikTok. I really love it. I saw it keep

Fab Giovanetti [00:48:06]:
Amazing. So I I guess, actually, this might still be a bit of a tricky one, TikTok or YouTube?

Todd [00:48:13]:
That that's tough because it depends. If I'm in the gym, then I want YouTube. I want home, I want TikTok. I, if I'm in the gym, you see, I'll put you know, like, turned my phone around the right way, kids, not this hand holding landscape. Right? I watch on YouTube. I watch Spotify, actually. I put Spotify on my on the stand master, I'll watch So it depends where I am. But if I'm at home and you've killed TikTok and I've only got YouTube, I kinda want that short fire kind of hit me now dopamine stuff.

Todd [00:48:38]:
I don't wanna watch More than 2 minutes of video. It's weird to say, isn't it? Where it kinda depends where you're at. You know? Sometimes you just need reminders to shit, so that's TikTok. But sometimes you need Proper 20 minute conversations are huge. So it depends where I am.

Fab Giovanetti [00:48:53]:
I mean, Todd, we're keeping a lot here. We're really shy of it do this and that here, to come and this and this.

Todd [00:48:58]:
I'm a negotiator. My daughter's the same. She's called the negotiator. Rue 10101. Cat. I'm calling Rue 102.

Fab Giovanetti [00:49:06]:
Last but not least, let's see how we go with this one, memes or GIFs?

Todd [00:49:12]:
That's easy. GIFs. I love a GIF. Love again.

Fab Giovanetti [00:49:15]:
Yeah. I mean I mean, now you're gonna be impressed with me because I love gifts too. I actually am curating now. I started, but now I'm Curating my own library of GIFs. I have a growing library of GIFs of myself that I send to people. Bless their hearts. So they're also GIF.

Todd [00:49:28]:
Same. Same. Yeah. Do you put spaghetti agency into gifts on Giphy like your constant windshield?

Fab Giovanetti [00:49:33]:
Okay. Now you know what to do, dear listener. Now you know exactly what to do. I have 1 final question for you before we kinda let you tell us a bit more where people can find out more about you, which is I'm bringing out so this is like a a new one. I'm bringing out something that I asked in my old podcast when we had an old podcast. So this is new to old marketing school, but it's a question that I loved. Obviously, we stopped that podcast, so I stopped asking it. But if you could have brunch brunch with anyone dead or alive, who would you take to brunch?

Todd [00:50:08]:
I I would actually take my grandmother who's no longer here. She died when she was 69, so I was quite young. And I and I feel like I've got a lot of her values, and now I'd love to just have a conversation with her. And I just feel like I've gotten really well with her as a 45 year old person. She she died when I was in my head thirties. Now I was I'm a different person. So it wouldn't be anyone famous. It wouldn't be like Bill Gates or Gary Day in short period.

Todd [00:50:30]:
You know, double job kicking to the table. I don't it wouldn't be anyone like that. It would just be yeah. I think I'd like to have another chat.

Fab Giovanetti [00:50:38]:
Would it be her cooking? Is there any cooking that you love from her? Would you actually take her out?

Todd [00:50:44]:
It was just me. No. I'd take her out, I think, the way she used to live because that was kinda cool. Well, I think she used to drive around in a football team, and She was kinda cool. An actual fan of, like, only 4 sequences, but, like, her life was kinda like that. It was but, it's pretty where I get my kinda cowboy ways from. You know? Nothing's done. Nothing's done kind of an official route.

Todd [00:51:04]:
So, yeah, we'd probably go out to local pub and, yeah, have a chat.

Fab Giovanetti [00:51:08]:
That. Well, Todd, thank you so much again. Thank you so much for taking the time and for sharing the wisdom and for bearing with Muscuro brain as we all know it by now. If people can find out more about you, where should they go?

Todd [00:51:25]:
Security agency in the website is the best place. All of our socials, as always, are linked from the bottom. But my TikTok is linked now because it's a little side hustle. So just search for the saber cowboy in TikTok. You'll find out So it's 2 2 places to go.

Fab Giovanetti [00:51:36]:
Oh, thank you so much. Team, as always, has been a pleasure to be here with you today. And this, I think, is a great time to remind you to be kind to yourself and others. And remember that true marketing speaks to hearts, not just minds. And until next time,